The Country Coach Diesel

The Tale of the Country Coach Diesel

Why We'll Never Purchase Another Vehicle from Bates RV

In June, 2000, our 1994 gas Pace Arrow had reached the end of its useful life for us. After many miles of pulling a trailer with a Jeep, its time had come. We took a trip from our home in Illinois to vacation in Florida and search for a used diesel coach. Unfortunately we elected to go through a dealer since we wanted to wrap up the trade-in and purchase in one deal, not several, possibly separated by weeks or months.

Mistake #1. We unfortunately wound up at Bates RV in Dover, FL, after looking at quite a number of other dealers.

We found nothing there either but as we were leaving, salesman Tom, came literally running after us saying that their Venice facility just acquired a 1998 Country Coach Allure with 13,000 miles. It was pretty much what we were looking for (allegedly 36 foot, no slide, late model, low mileage, no pets, no smokers, kept garaged, etc.) He told us it would be available in one week. We were then introduced to Marsh, the Sales Manager who quoted us a price. It was in the ball park of what we wanted to pay and what we thought, at the time and after a little research, was a fair price. Since we were going to the Keys for a week, the timing seemed right.

Mistake #2. In an effort to " hold " the unit for our inspection upon returning, we allowed them to charge $1000 to our credit card, refundable of course if we did not like the coach. Dumb! Should never have given them a penny. Not only did it tip our hand, but $1000 was way too much. $200 would have been more reasonable. So why did we fork out $1000 to hold the unit? We got conned by the following 5 lies, plus our own stupidity.

Lie #1. Salesman Tom told us that the unit was a one-owner, purchased locally, and was garaged for the past two years. After the purchase, we found the unit was never garaged! Well, two out of three truths aren't bad!

Lie #2. Tom told us it had the Cummins ISC 8.3 330 hp electronic engine which is what we wanted. Later we found it had the C 8.3 325 hp mechanical engine.

Lie #3. Tom told us the unit originally cost over $250,000. Later we found it cost $193,000.

Lie #4. Tom told us the current owners were nonsmoker and did not have pets. HA!

Lie #5. Salesman Tom told us that non-slides were harder and harder to come by and that if we didn't post the $1000 to hold the unit, it would probably be gone when we got back. Later we found that the customer who traded it in hadn't even made a commitment until the day before we came back to inspect the coach. Bates accepted our holding money on a coach they didn't even own.

So we let them put $1000 on our charge card figuring we had nothing much to lose and went down to the Keys. Had a great time.

Lie #6. We called salesman Tom and he told us the coach was in and ready for inspection. We get to Bates and it's not there. We were told it was at their other store in Venice. It turns out that the previous owner had not yet even brought it to Bates for the trade-in. We also later found the owners had not even signed the title transfer.

After some prodding, they agreed to have the coach at Dover the next day. We pulled in and started looking at it Thursday morning. At first glance it looked pretty good. The interior was clean and it had a nice floor plan. It smelled " new. " (Later we found this was some type of spray they used to hide the smoke odor!) The interior colors were close to what we wanted. Of all the units we had looked at, this was the first Country Coach we had seen and we liked it. I noticed that the exterior was oxidized pretty bad.

Lie #7. Marsh, the sales manager told us that " it's common for finishes to dull in Florida " and that they would wash, wax, polish and buff it to its original luster. We later found this coach had been severely neglected and the gel coat was essentially gone. The fiberglass accents were painted on but the rest of the coach was not painted, just colored fiberglass with a missing gel coat due to the severe weathering.

Took it for a test drive. Set the cruise control. When I hit the brakes the cruise didn't disengage. That was an interesting experience! In retrospect, that was the first indicator that we were about to get hosed.

Lie #8. Salesman Tom told us that there is no automatic cruise control disconnect on diesels. You need to manually turn them off when you hit the brakes. Red flag! It was at this juncture I realized we were being majorly conned! Duh!

Mistake #4. After such a ludicrous statement, we should have walked away from Bates. I still don't know why we didn't.

So now we are very suspicious of the dealer. We, however, liked the unit. We went through the coach fairly thoroughly (but not thoroughly enough!) and had a list of over 30 items that needed to be fixed before we would consider purchasing it. In the meantime I called back home to some friends who checked the NADA prices for the coach on the Internet just to confirm the research I had done before leaving. I also called Country Coach, talked with the Customer Service folks there and asked them a ton of questions (since the dealer didn't know squat about the coach.) The Service department verified the one-owner status, date of delivery and that there weren't any major service problems with the coach. The friendliness of the Country Coach Customer Service Department and their willingness to talk with me for almost two hours, a prospective owner of a used, not new coach, impressed me. I would say it was the service personnel, Kevin and John, at Country Coach and their wonderful attitude and patience with me that contributed a great deal to the decision to purchase the unit.

We slept on it and then the next day drove it again and gave it another 4 hours of inspection. We took a break and went to eat (off premise, of course.) We concluded that while we were not getting the deal of the century, we weren't getting totally screwed either. With the trade, we would be paying a little high but it was low mileage and we felt comfortable that we had identified the major issues with the unit. The coach part of our Pace Arrow trade was in excellent shape, in and out, but the chassis was never sized correctly right from the factory and that left a lot to be desired. So the bottom line, with trade from the Pace Arrow, was $89,000 " out the door " . To make the deal a little better, they finally agreed to throw in a $3500 service contract.

We also called Cummins to get a history of repair on the engine. Given the serial number they indicated no major mechanical repair work was done on what they called " the 8.3 engine. " It was only then that we agreed to the price with salesman Tom and sales manager Marsh. Now this is Friday afternoon and when the whole thing started to go to hell. We had spent two days 'thoroughly' going over the unit (not thoroughly enough) and a lot of time on the phone with Country Coach and Cummins. We also spent a great deal of time getting various finance rates and insurance quotes. We stated we wanted the list of items fixed before we signed the contract.

Lie #9. Sales manager Marsh told us that their shop would not work on a unit unless there was a contract on it.

Mistake #5. What a line of bulls**t! To this day I cannot believe I fell for this line of s**t from him! See Mistake #4 .

Big Lie/Con #10. Sales manager Marsh told us that their business manager " never has and never will " work on the weekends and that if we did not sign tonight we couldn't do so until Monday. That means it could not get into the shop until Monday. Arrghhh!

Now for the really embarrassing part, the signing of the contract. We agreed on $89,000 out the door, including a 4 year service contract. Yeah, I know, I could have done better with the contract elsewhere but this is what we had agreed on with Tom as part of the deal. Enter the " business manager " , Beyer, or better known to me as the " BM "

Lie #11. " Good news, " says the BM, " You are approved for 9.9%. " I stated that my research showed I could get 9.75% financing. I was told I was wrong and that there is " no place you can get 9.75. " I made one phone call to confirm the 9.75 and halfway through call, the BM interrupted me and stated he worked " really hard " and got me 9.75. Right ! ! !

We're tired. We had a long and frustrating day. It was hotter than hell. We wanted to get supper but were told the BM would be leaving " anytime now " and we had to get this wrapped up. So stupid on our part! We went to sign the contract. That's when some dude showed up from Venice with the title for the Country Coach in his hand and told the BM (in front of us) that the previous owner had just signed the title on the coach we were about to buy. Hmm..

Mistake #7. We should have walked at this point. There were so many false statements it wasn't even funny. Some we caught, some we didn't even realize until much later.

Lie #12. In and amongst all the confusion, being tired and rushed, and all the paper work that kept getting slipped in front of us, the frickin' BM takes the contract, said there was a typo and redid the numbers. When he did that,he added the cost of the service contract to the total amount that we had agreed to!

Mistake #8. " Sign here. " Dumb, dumb, dumb! Tired, worn out and reasonably confused at this point we did and wound up paying $3,500 more than we agreed to. The BM concentrated on the monthly payment when he did the hand waving and as a result the $3,500 got " lost " since he focused us on the monthly payments instead of the unit cost. I'll admit, it was our fault for letting him screw us but I argue a reputable dealer would never have pulled a stunt so low. Yeah, I know, I should have caught it but I didn't. To this day I have no idea how that slipped by me. And the worst part is that it didn't even dawn on me until after we got home and I had a chance to think about all of this in more detail and really look at the paperwork. Let the buyer beware!

I did have a moment of lucidity, however, when we got in writing, an agreement of all the issues that needed to be corrected.

Mistake #9. We never, never, never should have signed until the items were corrected first. We fell into the classic trap. How stupid of us ! Damn again! But we did think with an agreed to list and even having it on the contract we were covered. HA! Wrong again. We never put a completion date down for the work. (You can already see where this is going!)

Finally were done, in more ways than one! They " graciously " allowed us to use a campground next to their facility and keep the Pace Arrow there until we had a chance to move everything to the Country Coach. As the sales manager pulled up the Country Coach for us to take possession, he handed me the keys and said sarcastically, " Well, it's yours now, bud! " What an a**hole! Little did I know that this was just the beginning.

So we parked our new " dream " coach next to the Pace Arrow and started moving late Friday night. Bear in mind that purchasing this coach will cost me four more years of work (as opposed to retirement.) But that's OK, it was a decision based on the quality of life and the expectations and dreams of life in the 2004-5 timeframe. Again - this was to be the coach of our dreams, not nightmares!

Lie #13. One of the identified issues was that it appeared the holding tanks were full. We were told this was a problem with the sensors and it was on the list to be fixed, starting Saturday AM. Bates told us they had emptied the tanks but the lights were wrong. WRONG!

Just on a hunch, I hooked up the sewer hose and found Bates never emptied the tanks. The indicator lights were correct! But what sucked even more than their lies, is that I could NOT get the black tank valve closed once it was opened. So my first night with the new dream coach that will take us well into retirement, was spent fixing the black tank valve. It took three hours, in the rain, with zillions of mosquitoes and other people's liquefied s**t all over me and the sewer bay! Turns out, the people that had the coach before us threw hair and who knows what else into the black tank. Hair balls the size of my fist were wedged in the tank shut off valve. I had to remove the entire valve assembly from the tank to clean it. I leave to your imagination the consequences as the hairballs came loose and the dammed up sh*t came out. I was not a happy camper. F**k Bates and the horse they rode in on!

Got it fixed about 11PM. We also noticed that there had been a severe water leak behind the refrigerator. Seems that Country Coach undercoated the chassis. When they did, they taped up some drain tubes to prevent the sealant from clogging the drains that extended out the bottom of the chassis. They removed the masking tape from all drains except for the one from the refrigerator. This means that 2 years of condensate backed up and spilled into the refrigerator bay severely rotting the wood and loosening up the wall board. This was NOT easy to see but after poking around in the sewer bay for three hours there were subtle signs that led to this discovery. Then I saw in very remote places, a lot of mud hornet nests (including the blower fan on the furnace!) That's when we knew we were lied to and this was never stored inside. Months later I called the previous owner who confirmed the following: (1) the coach had never been stored inside (2) they had pets (hence the hair balls) and (3) they were smokers.

This was the worst night I ever spent in my life. Would break out in a cold sweat wondering what we were into, worried about how Bates would handle the repairs and just plain damn mad!

Lie #14. When we signed the contract, the sales manager assured us they would work on the coach Saturday and Sunday and that we would be on our way home, and happy, by Monday morning. Yeah, right again!

Saturday the service department worked on the coach. They fixed about 15 of the 30 items to our satisfaction. The outside finish was a major issue. The detailers were to show up Saturday to deal with the oxidation on the outside of the coach. They didn't show. Not only that, quite a number of items were still not done.

Lie #15. Tom " assured " us the detailers would be there Sunday to fix the outside. After bugging the hell out of him all day Sunday (since the detailers never showed - surprise!) he gave me a cockamamie excuse that the detailers got drunk the night before and were all in the slammer. Right! So we lost a day there. Got to give the guy credit for creative bulls**t. Oh yeah, did I mention no service crew showed up Sunday either. Another surprise!

So now it's into Monday, when we were supposed to be on the way home and " happy " . Still no detailers. Still no one showing up to fix the air conditioner that didn't work. Only half the items on the list were completed and Bates had suddenly lost interest in doing any more work on the coach. We pestered the salesman so much that he'd hide when he'd see us coming. The sale manager also was suddenly gone most of the time.

Tuesday they worked even less. Lost another day. I'm fuming. They finally got the air fixed but still no detailers.

Mistake #10. I drove in to Tampa and talked with a lawyer who charged me $50 to tell me I was screwed. No way to get out of the contract. Florida sucks when it comes to consumer protection. Hell, even Illinois has better consumer protection than Florida! I could sue Bates but that would just tie everything in knots for months. I'm pissed! Salesman Tom is no help. Sales manager Marsh is no help. Can't find the BM (Duh!) Service manager is avoiding me.

Mistake #11. Should have gone to Beaudry RV in Arizona instead. Now I see why sales manager Marsh made his statement " Well, it's yours now, bud! "

Wednesday. The " detailers " showed up. This seems to be a different group since the other alleged detailers are probably still in the slammer. But who knows!

Lie #16. Now the detailers (that finally showed up) claim they cannot clean and polish the outside of the coach because the humidity is too high!They claimed they couldn't get the coach done until the humidity went down, maybe in 3 or 4 days. Yeah right!

At this point I went ballistic, used the " F " word at many people many times. The sales manager wanted to get rid of me so he agreed to pay up to $500 to buff the coach once we got home. However, they had put the coach in a storage area and we were not able to finish transferring our items from the Pace or get it out of storage and on the road until Thursday morning. Thursday we got in the Coach and got the hell out of Bates, Tampa and Florida as fast as we could, never to return again!

Thinking we were out of the woods, I noticed smoke from the trailer whenever I stopped. One issue was for them to make sure there were no connections for the electric brakes for the trailer. When I got back I'd add my own brake controller. Well the mental geniuses at Bates instead hooked up the trailer brake line directly to the brake lights so whenever I applied the brakes, the trailer brakes got full voltage and it destroyed two tires!

Then, to add insult to injury, on the way home in Indiana, the Reese hitch broke off and we almost lost the trailer and the car that was on it. I quickly returned to work the next day for some much needed R and R!

Bates tactics worked. They got rid of us. They violated their agreement by never taking the coach to Cummins, as promised, and having the oil changed, the valves adjusted and not completing 12 of the items we still had on the list.

So what's my point? I wrote this in the hopes others might see where I screwed up and not make the same mistakes. Besides, as I said before, it's good therapy!

After a couple years now I'm still beating myself up for being so stupid. I've learned to like the coach a lot realizing that it was the process of purchasing it that was painful and not the coach itself.

There is good news in this. I have dealt with Country Coach on almost a weekly basis fixing the myriad of things that were wrong (and didn't get fixed at Bates) or were overlooked. In addition I've made over 100 improvements to the coach, oftentimes adding features that didn't appear in the Country Coach line until the next model year. During this time I've had nothing but excellent results working with the Country Coach Parts and Service Departments. Many times they have gone above and beyond the call of duty to help me out, explain things that Bates should have, and to work me through some of the more than 100 additions/modifications I've made to the coach.

I am thoroughly impressed with Country Coach and their staff. The quality of the coach is probably a little less than what I expected but only due to very poor maintenance by the previous owner. For example, there was only 40 psi in 3 of the tires when we left Bates. The previous owner never checked the pressure and Bates certainly didn't either!

The story goes on and on. The sad part is that this should have been a very happy time for us and it turned into a major nightmare. While we're very pleased with the Allure, we'll always have this shadow hanging over us. We've put on about 20K miles and are very comfortable with the coach but we'll always have the bad memory of this experience indelibly burned into our memory.

So, if we ever buy another coach, we'd get a Country Coach, but we'll be damned if we'll go to Florida or Bates RV to buy anything - ever again!